What is Love?
What is Love?
Let me start off by saying that I have a sweater fetish and have been following the community around in various incarnations (NTCWEB, Melody, ETC) for a long time (~8-10 years), but have never, ever posted (or even registered). My fetish is not so much that I am attracted to the sweaters themselves as more to the fact that it enhances the feelings I have for a person actually in that sweater. To put it to some kind of analogy, sweaters are to me what lingerie is to someone more, um,
- Angoramsterdam
- Top Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:56 pm
- Location: Amsterdam
You wrote:
"I know that if things progress and if we get past this point that I will always do my best to fight for her, protect her interests, be her guardian and keeper, be shoulder to cry on and support her whether she's gotten the gold medal or if it slipped through her fingers. I will always listen to her thoughts and stresses and will brandish the lantern while I accompany her though her darkest fears."
Sounds like love to me my friend. It sounds like you are having too many questions. Live and enjoy.
AA
"I know that if things progress and if we get past this point that I will always do my best to fight for her, protect her interests, be her guardian and keeper, be shoulder to cry on and support her whether she's gotten the gold medal or if it slipped through her fingers. I will always listen to her thoughts and stresses and will brandish the lantern while I accompany her though her darkest fears."
Sounds like love to me my friend. It sounds like you are having too many questions. Live and enjoy.
AA
Whooooooaaaaaah!
Hi SomeGuy,
welcome and thanks for joining us. Your post is on topic since the feelings of "folks like us" are very much on topic here (although much too seldom debated).
You ask for "What is love", well I'm not sure if the literature and science of the last few (thousend) years did find an answer, but I will try to add my two cents (please note that English is not my native language).
Let me add some points to the good remarks Angoramsterdam made.
Back to science, newer studies reduce the love feeling to some chemistry human bodies seem to produce when it comes to an intensified contact with some other human. Romantic people will be insulted by this, but especially in your case it could give us some clues.
In general the scientists found out that after a shorter period of "being fresh in love" (with heart beating and shivering knees) the chemistry of the body changes and turns one towards feelings which are described as "happiness of being together", "secure feelings" and a "deep relatedness" towards the partner.
From your writing I suppose that you never did experience these "shivering knees feelings" and you are very much confused about that fact. But I learn as well that you are a reasonable and very much rational man.
Conclusion, you might never experience that first step of being in love but you do (IMHO) in fact experience the second one already! So you are in love with that lady and that is good news!
However, please include your fetish into your thoughts about that relationship. You say that your fetish is not that strong, just proove yourself if your partner does (or will) accept or support it enough to make you happy. I'm saying this because I have heard many stories about happy relationships which broke up because the partner (mostly the female) did not accept or support the fetish. On the other hand I know (also from my own experience) that a relationship based on the fetish only is mostly not a long term thing. To say it in one sentence, IMHO one needs both to be happy, a matching normal life and a matching sex life.
If that is the case the probability of a lifelong and happy relation is very high.
About having kids, well, get the first two and I'm sure you will easily come to an understanding about a possible third.
Hope my words could help you a bit. I know among us are some very reasonable folks, so you will possible get some more comments. In any case I am very sure you do not need to see a therapist, you are just not a romantic, but that is not a real problem, in real life today it may even be beneficial.
Wish you all the best and keep us informed.
Woolly greetings,
Joe Al
welcome and thanks for joining us. Your post is on topic since the feelings of "folks like us" are very much on topic here (although much too seldom debated).
You ask for "What is love", well I'm not sure if the literature and science of the last few (thousend) years did find an answer, but I will try to add my two cents (please note that English is not my native language).
Let me add some points to the good remarks Angoramsterdam made.
Back to science, newer studies reduce the love feeling to some chemistry human bodies seem to produce when it comes to an intensified contact with some other human. Romantic people will be insulted by this, but especially in your case it could give us some clues.
In general the scientists found out that after a shorter period of "being fresh in love" (with heart beating and shivering knees) the chemistry of the body changes and turns one towards feelings which are described as "happiness of being together", "secure feelings" and a "deep relatedness" towards the partner.
From your writing I suppose that you never did experience these "shivering knees feelings" and you are very much confused about that fact. But I learn as well that you are a reasonable and very much rational man.
Conclusion, you might never experience that first step of being in love but you do (IMHO) in fact experience the second one already! So you are in love with that lady and that is good news!
However, please include your fetish into your thoughts about that relationship. You say that your fetish is not that strong, just proove yourself if your partner does (or will) accept or support it enough to make you happy. I'm saying this because I have heard many stories about happy relationships which broke up because the partner (mostly the female) did not accept or support the fetish. On the other hand I know (also from my own experience) that a relationship based on the fetish only is mostly not a long term thing. To say it in one sentence, IMHO one needs both to be happy, a matching normal life and a matching sex life.
If that is the case the probability of a lifelong and happy relation is very high.
About having kids, well, get the first two and I'm sure you will easily come to an understanding about a possible third.
Hope my words could help you a bit. I know among us are some very reasonable folks, so you will possible get some more comments. In any case I am very sure you do not need to see a therapist, you are just not a romantic, but that is not a real problem, in real life today it may even be beneficial.
Wish you all the best and keep us informed.
Woolly greetings,
Joe Al
I'm afraid the more I post the more of a "bad guy" I'll seem, but here we go anyway.
The science approach appeals to me, I'm very much a technologist. Maybe it's that I have so much of a scientist mentality that I've found things like faith, belief and religion hard to grasp.
It's the love thing that worries me the most, if I don't feel that "heart beating, shivering knees" thing with her but highly respect everything else as described in my previous post. Does that still mean I love her, or that we are just really close friends with benefits? What if I commit to her now and then 5 years down the road I stumble upon a person that I *do* feel these things for, does that make my previous actions in my current relationship a sham, is it not then a true love? Is there such a thing?
I realize I ask a lot of questions but these are the questions that lead me to my problem. Maybe I should be asking those who are happily married how they feel about their spouse 5 years after the "fresh in love" thing wears off. Depending on the answers, maybe I've just "skipped" the that beginning part.
To answer your question about my fetish, yes she does know about it and we do joke about it from time to time; and yes, she will wear a sweater to bed if I ask (but she doesn't seem to do it on her own to entice me). She did say to me the other weekend, "You know, maybe we could take a cruise to Alaska; August is awful hot, and Alaska has better sweater weather that time of year." then she kinda grinned.
Thank you all for your time.
The science approach appeals to me, I'm very much a technologist. Maybe it's that I have so much of a scientist mentality that I've found things like faith, belief and religion hard to grasp.
It's the love thing that worries me the most, if I don't feel that "heart beating, shivering knees" thing with her but highly respect everything else as described in my previous post. Does that still mean I love her, or that we are just really close friends with benefits? What if I commit to her now and then 5 years down the road I stumble upon a person that I *do* feel these things for, does that make my previous actions in my current relationship a sham, is it not then a true love? Is there such a thing?
I realize I ask a lot of questions but these are the questions that lead me to my problem. Maybe I should be asking those who are happily married how they feel about their spouse 5 years after the "fresh in love" thing wears off. Depending on the answers, maybe I've just "skipped" the that beginning part.
To answer your question about my fetish, yes she does know about it and we do joke about it from time to time; and yes, she will wear a sweater to bed if I ask (but she doesn't seem to do it on her own to entice me). She did say to me the other weekend, "You know, maybe we could take a cruise to Alaska; August is awful hot, and Alaska has better sweater weather that time of year." then she kinda grinned.
Thank you all for your time.
- Rachelle69
- Top Member
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 12:17 pm
Hi SomeGuy,
you did ask that question to a happily married men . I am married for seven years now and have been living together with my wife for nine more years before. We are indeed very happy, it is all different to the first two years but is is good!
I get the deep impression that you really skipped the beginning part. As said, don't worry and go for a happy ongoing relationship. What you tell us about her reaction on the fetish sounds very good!
"and then 5 years down the road I stumble upon a person that I *do* feel these things for" Now that may happen. Some folks divorce then, some folks just ignore it and go on being happy with the partner they got. IMHO it depends on how happy and trusted a relation is. In a happy and good relationship the probability that a situation like this will come up is very low.
Go on and become a happy and pleased partner! And about sweaters in bed, develop it carefully and slow and you will both like it .
Woolly greetings,
Joe Al
you did ask that question to a happily married men . I am married for seven years now and have been living together with my wife for nine more years before. We are indeed very happy, it is all different to the first two years but is is good!
I get the deep impression that you really skipped the beginning part. As said, don't worry and go for a happy ongoing relationship. What you tell us about her reaction on the fetish sounds very good!
"and then 5 years down the road I stumble upon a person that I *do* feel these things for" Now that may happen. Some folks divorce then, some folks just ignore it and go on being happy with the partner they got. IMHO it depends on how happy and trusted a relation is. In a happy and good relationship the probability that a situation like this will come up is very low.
Go on and become a happy and pleased partner! And about sweaters in bed, develop it carefully and slow and you will both like it .
Woolly greetings,
Joe Al
It does sound like you are over analysing the situation. I have been with my girlfriend for 8 months and was going through the same situation, I wasnt sure if I loved her or not.
The only thing i was sure of was when I was ready to say those magic words for the first time it wouldnt be when when we were making love or when we had had a drink.
I just waited for the time when all i thought about was her,didnt want to go anywhere that didnt involve her, missed her when she was away and got excited at the thought of seeing her. Which I still do 8 months down the line.
It sounds like you have a very stable relationship with this woman and you do love her. But equally it sounds like you are afraid of committing yourself to something that is out of your control just by saying those 3 words.
Has she told you she loves you yet
The only thing i was sure of was when I was ready to say those magic words for the first time it wouldnt be when when we were making love or when we had had a drink.
I just waited for the time when all i thought about was her,didnt want to go anywhere that didnt involve her, missed her when she was away and got excited at the thought of seeing her. Which I still do 8 months down the line.
It sounds like you have a very stable relationship with this woman and you do love her. But equally it sounds like you are afraid of committing yourself to something that is out of your control just by saying those 3 words.
Has she told you she loves you yet
Hi SomeGuy – thanks for sharing this. Although we enjoy the benefits of anonymity when posting, at the same time we (not just you, but anyone who posts) reveal so much about ourselves that we nonetheless become known.
What is love? One thing is certain: the English language shows its inadequacy by having just one word for love. Ancient Greek can illuminate, because they had 3 words to distinguish the various types of love: Eros has become our present day Erotic: originally it referred to an attractive force, something that draws us and whose beauty we are passionate about. It applies to our fuzzy fetish! Philia simply means friendship, as in Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love. The replies you’ve received to your post have been based on Philia. Agape (also the word for “love†in modern Greek) is a general affection or concern for a person, and has been used in various ancient texts to refer to sacrificial love – as in, for instance, the love for one’s spouse.
How to apply all this to your question? Probably the most useful answer would be to tell you my personal experience. I’ve been married for 7 years. When I got married, this was a decision to love. How did I make this decision? I looked at the 3 main types of love, described above, and asked if they were all relevant to the relationship. Was I attracted to my potential wife (eros: definitely!) Did I see her as a friend (philia: you bet; she’s my best friend) Now the hard one, was I prepared to sacrifice myself for her (agape: yes, there’s no one for whom I’d be willing to make greater sacrifices). Maybe this isn’t where you are at in the relationship you mention in your post, but I hope it gives you the bigger picture. I think that human love is multi-layered, beginning with the most basic physical attraction (very necessary!), moving onto emotional and involved love, and then sometimes culminating in a committed love that involves a decision.
But first, maybe work out what love is for you. This may require some hard work, but I hope the definitions given here help. Only then will you be able to say whether you love this woman. If it is love, the love is yours to share and only you can define it for yourself.
And what if someone else comes along who grabs our attention? Again I can give you only my personal view: the love for a woman is a decision involving a choice, and making a choice necessarily excludes other options. If I am halfway through a meal of beef in a restaurant, it’s not fair on the chef to say, Take this away, now I want fish. So choose well! And in the meantime, enjoy your freedom to look at (and choose from!) the menu.
What is love? One thing is certain: the English language shows its inadequacy by having just one word for love. Ancient Greek can illuminate, because they had 3 words to distinguish the various types of love: Eros has become our present day Erotic: originally it referred to an attractive force, something that draws us and whose beauty we are passionate about. It applies to our fuzzy fetish! Philia simply means friendship, as in Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love. The replies you’ve received to your post have been based on Philia. Agape (also the word for “love†in modern Greek) is a general affection or concern for a person, and has been used in various ancient texts to refer to sacrificial love – as in, for instance, the love for one’s spouse.
How to apply all this to your question? Probably the most useful answer would be to tell you my personal experience. I’ve been married for 7 years. When I got married, this was a decision to love. How did I make this decision? I looked at the 3 main types of love, described above, and asked if they were all relevant to the relationship. Was I attracted to my potential wife (eros: definitely!) Did I see her as a friend (philia: you bet; she’s my best friend) Now the hard one, was I prepared to sacrifice myself for her (agape: yes, there’s no one for whom I’d be willing to make greater sacrifices). Maybe this isn’t where you are at in the relationship you mention in your post, but I hope it gives you the bigger picture. I think that human love is multi-layered, beginning with the most basic physical attraction (very necessary!), moving onto emotional and involved love, and then sometimes culminating in a committed love that involves a decision.
But first, maybe work out what love is for you. This may require some hard work, but I hope the definitions given here help. Only then will you be able to say whether you love this woman. If it is love, the love is yours to share and only you can define it for yourself.
And what if someone else comes along who grabs our attention? Again I can give you only my personal view: the love for a woman is a decision involving a choice, and making a choice necessarily excludes other options. If I am halfway through a meal of beef in a restaurant, it’s not fair on the chef to say, Take this away, now I want fish. So choose well! And in the meantime, enjoy your freedom to look at (and choose from!) the menu.